Warning: this post may rattle some cages and offend, do not read if you are easily offended.
James says:
Several situations recently have led me to the conclusion that there is too much bullshit in the IM space. What lies below in this post is not going to please some people but the truth is more worthy:
“We did not train you well”
How is it possible that marketers can happily sell you on a ‘make millions course’ then later tell you that they did not train you well since you still have no website and you make no money? The astounding thing is that they now want to sell you on making just a few hundred dollars and you should invest with them again! The question is will you ?
“Upsells and Downsells”
Compounding this is the fact that last year they sold you a complex upsell / downsell program and this year is proudly touting the no upsell / downsell factor in his offer…. What is the poor student supposed to think?
Celebrating Mediocrity
I attended an event recently which the organizer declared as the best ever. The problem is the event was no where good as it was a few years ago. Why do they think it was so great? I don’t know but someone needs to say it was crap so I just did. The bar has been lifted for events especially when it comes to content and respecting clients. Deliver value and the rest will take care of itself. Event promoters should attend other events and see what works.
Popularity Contests Suck
The reason so many marketers keep quiet when there is average play is because they are worried that the others in the ‘group’ will not promote their product. You see, when there is a huge product launch there is an obligation for them to each promote the others list. The thing that sucks is this: I send my clients to an offer I like because the product is good, however that marketer then “PIMPS” my customer to the very next launch!!!! So I will be guarding my client list like a cautious parent from now on. When you join my list I care about you. If you get pounded by marketers over and over for every launch tell them exactly what you think of it on the unsubscribe feedback form. Point them to this post if you dare!
Lack of ethics
One thing that bothers me is the apparant lack of ethics some marketers have. Some of the example videos they use demonstrate how they are promoting products are less than honest. One very famous marketer recently sent me an email telling me how he misses the days when he could put up sites that generated tens of thousands of junk pages and bring in 70,000 a month from adsense. These sites offered no value to anyone and eventually got scraped from Googles index. What are they thinking?
Till next time….
Dean says:
Wow, I love how refreshingly honest and blunt James is, that is a very rare thing in this industry.
Anyway, my 2c…
I personally feel there is a big disconnect between what people teach, and what they do… teaching upsells etc and then not including them in your own launch, that to me screams of a huge disconnect.
Celebrating Mediocrity
As for the event organisers claiming their crappy event was “great”, I would imagine they are doing this to limit refunds… if you tell an audience that they just witnessed something great, even if it sucked, some people will believe it, and there are sneaky social proof and other fancy psychological NLP stuff they do to take this even further.
I am not condoning it, but that is likely to be the reality of why they said it… that or they have their heads so far up their arses that…. ah, forget it.
Here is the thing… when it comes to events, I actually rarely go to them for the content, I know that sounds strange, but I go to them usually for networking, deal making, and to see what is being sold, and how it is being sold… and thank goodness I go for these reasons, because most of the events out there are crappy pitch-fests with speakers who are so reliant on speaking as a “business”, they are out of touch with the times, and are stuck in 2003.
I recently turned down numerous speaking gigs, and even the opportunity to have my own management team, simply because I don’t want to EVER go down that path.
Popularity Contests Suck
At times the industry can seem like a pyramid scheme, but I do feel times are changing, and the average user is vastly more knowledgable than they were 5 or 6 years ago.
One day I hope there will be a digital revolution, and when that happens, you can call on me to be front of the line with pitchfork in hand.
So viva la revolution, let’s start unsubscribing, blogging, commenting and standing up to the tidal wave of BS that is out there.
I really need a strong coffee now… phew!
Have Your Say
When was the last time you got mad or angry from something in this industry? Perhaps you have a horror story from an event? Share your stories and experiences in the comments below.
Thanks,
A rather annoyed and frustrated Dean & James.
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This was a hot one… leave your opinions below.
Dean
Good timing with this post. Thank you!
I have been doing my best to “be like water” as James often advises when I encounter some of the BS. It’s hard to remain calm when facing it – my water either boils or freezes in response to such s***
Something that really bothers me is how poorly some marketers treat their affiliates if the affiliate is rather new to marketing. I was keen to promote an IM product back when I started in IM. After I bought it I felt that it offered good value. I sent a thank you to the vendor, and he was keen to use that as a testimonial. I told them I’d like to be an affiliate. They was fine with that, but then they wrote to me in a very condescending way which was quite odd. I don’t normally get that kind of response from anyone, marketer or not, so after some thought I decided not to endorse the product, no matter how good it is. I bet that if I had been a big name back then, they would have treated me differently.
I’m also disturbed by how unprofessional some business people are, both online and off. Nothing new there, I know, we all have stories and are aware of this, but after a recent encounter with someone who started to have ulterior motives (far too much interest in me personally (and he’s married!) instead instead of the business arrangement we were developing, I am more wary than ever.
Wow! I new I was following the right people you just clarified it!
Thanks for caring enough to speak out, we all know its easier to keep quiet.
Congrats!
Irene
right on the money James, i remember signing up to a well known Guru’s private coacing where we had weekly access to them and his team wold build our site,product etc and have a profitable business in6 months-recouping costs…needless to say t took 3 months to get the site up at $997 per month and he was no longer taking calls i was outraged and demanded a refund ..finally got it after a years time.of mostly me chasing them for the whole year… and they had the gaul to say they where doing me a favour,,,keep up the good work James keep the bastards honest .. the industry needs tobe called on at times to gain some credibility
Thanks guys for bringing this up. I can honestly say I hope these marketers take this on board. What they’re doing doesn’t only affect them negatively but it affects the rest of industry. Nowadays if I want to market something I have to be super-extra-careful-walking-on-egg-shells so I won’t come across as these guys you’re talking about in the post. It slows me down and I don’t like it.
Thanks for the honesty James and Dean. It’s refreshing to say the least.
I’ve always avoided the events because most of them just seemed like pitch fests to me.
Keep on keepin it real guys!
Oram
Hi! thank god I don’t know what event/product/guru you’re talking about because I took your fantastic advice and unsubscribed to all the bogus marketers. good one!
its the lack of ethics that annoys me, people making nothing to one hundred dollars a MONTH running seminars on “social media money making” grrr
Mike
This is the best post I’ve read all week – completely share your thoughts.
My personal hate is the overflow from so called guru’s who spend their whole time clogging up my email inbox promoting other guru’s products. It just degrades them for not having information of their own to promote….
I recently did a cull of these guru’s from my inbox – it’s sooooo invigorating hitting the ‘unsubscribe’ button! I hear the common mantra of ‘it’s all in the list’ – but not when we get sick of the ongoing crap and rebel by unsubscribing! Next on my ‘to do’ list is to do a cull on Facebook…
Looking forward to reading more of your posts.
Gail
yes… sure… good points and all. no contest there. but if you’re so pissed and miffed and whatnot… why not name some names and get it over with? I’m sure you know what you’re talking about and mean well, but it’s hard to get a handle on just references and insinuation. just get the feeling that with everything that’s said, more is left unsaid. thanks for the effort, anyway…
James (and Dean) thanks for posting this!
So much bullshit in the world of IM.
In face, it REALLY ruffles my feathers when I see speakers shouting about “You can be a millionaire”. BULLshit. Yes it is true for some people, but that just won’t happen for many people. For many, they will go through the same patterns as many of the NLP crowd. They’ll keep on wanting more, and keep on falling for the next big promise.
This annoys me so much because I used to fall for it, and I’m the kind of guy who takes action.
Thankfully I know that you talk sense James (which is why I invested with you and made a lot of money
B
Awesome post guys. The tide is turning and people like you are the change that is needed. I have been turning down ‘traditional’ speaking job offers as I am not interested in selling products that they want their cut from… I would rather go back to just building websites and give up on speaking than play the game. Thankfully there are some out there that get the same things.
Rich
Nicely said James and Dean!
I am soo sick of waking up every morning to find yet another “GURU” acclaimed marketer filling my inbox with the “spam” mail. Thankyou for confirming my thoughts on these people and their events and rest assured James, I will be pointing them to this page to read your internet marketing acts and laws!
cheers guys
Yes! I have often felt totally taken advantage of after spending money on programs. I get mad at myself for getting wrapped up in the “personality” of a speaker and then loose sight of if there is true value in what he is selling. I always see a lesson in every experience and definitely the lessons early on in my internet experience has been caution. Thanks for the post and I happy to have found a likemind.
Brilliant Post James & Dean,
I have been upset with the state of IM for a few years now.. so thought that I would pitch in my 2cents;
Celebrating Mediocrity
This is happening all over and had to stop attending many of so called Digital Marketing events as they are simply not run by experts, but by “popular people”. The amount of times I’ve read books by these so called experts who have about as much insight as a dead sheep (in a boardroom).
Dean’s point about refunds makes sense, if they tell you just how great it is, most people who are not well connected in the industry just won’t argue (incase they look stupid). These events are great for networking… but that really is it.. Unless you find a good one, i wouldn’t expect to come away from most events with any type of insight into new marketing techniques or learn anything new.
Popularity Contests Suck
This is something that bugs me, the fact that someone is a celebrity means that they have the skills to host a discussion with the creator of a new network or tool… This is Bull****. I watched one of the @aplusk interviews recently and was horrified (a little naive perhaps). It was on Ustream and all the most interesting questions were drowned in tedious messages of love to him and Demi, we learned nothing about the expert he was supposedly interviewing.
Lack of ethics
So many campaigns these days are simply about lots of money, and hey.. I can understand this when you are a freelancer and need to pay the rent, but what about big agencies that can afford to offer quality services. Most social media campaigns are utter crap, ran by inexperienced fools that think that setting up a twitter account and getting a frigging application built for Facebook is worth their client’s money. This kind of crap messes up real campaigns ran by died in the wall experts, as clients just don’t trust the industry anymore.
Anyway.. basically i agree guys.. great post!
James.. Great post and I agree a million percent man.
We all know that the top few marketers time their launches with each other.. this month it’s you and next month it’s me, then there share lists and that how they kill it.
IM is becoming the joke that MLM was in the 80’s with bunchsleazy Sp[onsors selling training crap making their oney that way and making nothing with the actually MLM Opp..lol
You ever wander why soem of these big marketers dissapear for a few years then come back all new…lol
You hit the nail squarely on the head. The word incestuous comes to mind. All these “heavy hitters” sharing lists for all these product launches and giving away bonus add-ons to get their affiliate compensation. Their sincere promise of never ever sharing my valued email address means nothing. I usually read all the offers and listen to the webinars, it’s a good marketing exercise. But it’s time to exercise my delete key more often and choose the sincere IM guys. I’m down to Paul Myers and James Schramko. Keep up the great posts James.
Jeff
Dean and James, amazing post, Love that you got the guts to write all this. I’ve been very disappointed in many marketers and events. I know exactly what you’re talking about an event being CRAP and promoters then saying that it was the best ever! Yesterday itself I was stunned by marketers tripping themselves to promote one product and this product in my eyes had a really weak offer. I cannot understand that!
I am as careful as possible for bringing this bullshit to the new markets I am opening and I appreciate dearly people like you and Dean that can be objective and that call a “duck a duck” proud to be friends with you guys and to be associated with you!
Fortunately I created a secondary email for all my IM optins. But your post today has inspired me to weed out my subscriptions.
James and Dean, keep up the good, honest work.
I can be more blunt: “BS? WTF?”
I agree on so many fronts that it’s difficult to know where to begin. The whole pyramid scheme/MLM side of IM ticks me off because it offers value only for those higher up the pile. I won’t mention any company names but I’ve been on the receiving end of too many of these pitches and I’m weary of them. The swiftest way to get unfollowed or unfriended by me is to shout about an MLM pitch. Bye-bye! I’ve unsubscribed from several lists because of the volume of e-mail I’m now getting (over 100 messages every day), many of which offer me little or no value. Remember people, your customer’s favorite radio station is Wii FM (what’s in it for me?).
As for events that dangle huge promises and then fail to deliver? Well, these events can and do offer value BUT, the more successful they become, they become victims of their success and their organizers stop trying.
They forget the original thrill and get a little lost in their own self importance. The thing that irritates me about these kinds of events, and their smaller cousins, is that for pretty much every speaker there’s their main dog and pony show and THEN, surprise, surprise, there’s the “Today only! Normally a bajillion dollars, but when you sign up today, you’ll get $4,997 worth of CDs/DVDs/manuals and so on, for only $297!”
OK, so the upsell is a part of this business, but not for every presentation! I’m sick of
the pitches and yes, this is one of the reasons I’ve been unsubscribing from the lists
I’ve dropped off just recently. It’s relentless!
As for celebrating mediocrity? It’s done because it’s EASY! The biggest trick is in making something look easy when in reality it’s been a bitch to put together. To be really good takes SKILL. Skill takes EFFORT. Effort requires THOUGHT. Thought requires TIME, and time requires VISION. All of these things require persistence, dedication, commitment, and “stick-to-it-evness”. All of which is in short supply because it’s way easier to skip the quality, the hard work, the graft, and the focus of quality and eye the prize of the swift profit. This basically says “SCREW VALUE!” which is a huge, huge mistake.
So yes, let’s have more realism, less bullshit, fewer people talking utter bollocks (and there are lots); let’s have more people offering greater value, fewer “Hey, this event will be great” promises when the organizers know full well that their roster of speakers lacks punch, and more value for the money paid—both for IM customers buying the big launch products, AND for customers down the line.
I’m chiming in again because I appreciate all of the comments here.
I want to add how tired I am of the marketers who focus too much on being “inspirational”, and barely offer the tools, techniques and realistic approach to the market that are needed for success. I echo Billy Farrell’s comment here about the “you can be a millionaire” pushers. So tired of the types who parrot that people aren’t successful simply because they “don’t believe” they can be. That may describe some people – the ones who never take action because of their fears – but certainly not all. It is very insulting to the people who work hard at IM and do their best to take action *despite* doubts and fears they have. Almost everyone has doubts from time to time, after all, it’s a matter of doing things that up the odds in one’s favor despite fears, etc. And, of course, with some of the garbage that is being taught, no wonder some people are struggling – what good is belief if what you believe is ultimately stupid and useless? That is why I appreciate what James Schramko teaches – methods that actually work, where beginners should start, and various ways to problem solve, fail fast, etc.
Couple of things that stand out as being hugely annoying for me..
Firstly, gurus saying “ugly websites sell”. Maybe they do sell, maybe they don’t – I don’t have any stats to say either way. But they gotta get with the program. Its 2010 guys – raise your standards!! Web pages that they build their business around should be fresh, appealing, have easy navigation and above all be professional. Ugly websites to me represent what the guru thinks of their clients – NOT MUCH!!
Secondly, the amount of hoops you have to jump through just to make a purchase these days. Customers have to battle against popovers, exit popups, OTO # 1, OTO # 2, OTO # 3, OTO # 4, auto-play videos without controls **cursing @ computer begins**. A recent purchase for a big gurus product took me 23 minutes before I could access my original intended product. To Mr Guru – reduce the hoops and keep it real.
And lastly, a humorous video for you to enjoy which so aptly suits James/Deans post..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKCdexz5RQ8
I think the everyone’s frustration with the ‘gurus’ actually creates a great opportunity for other offers that deliver more value, are individually tailored and give some one-on-one attention. Most people are sick of being treated like a dollar sign or a number, they want to know that the person they are buying from has their best interest in mind.
ving been to loads of these free events and also seeing behind the seens of what happens.
It really is a load of BS. The down side is that the people claiming to be gurus aren’t really gurus. I had a guy, who I told I didn’t like his weekly conversation he sent out, tell me that he didn’t believe in what he wrote, he just wrote it cause it was the current trend.
That really got me. Why stand up and claim to be an expert in a field that you don’t even believe in.
Then he’ll probably sell this “i don’t believe in program” to a group of people who don’t know any better for thousands and then become the next IM guru.
I remember a guy who was a normal 9-5 job guy decide that he was going to put up a product and use a pay per click process to make some money. well he put up around $10,000 and of course made a fortune and then became the next IM guru. But he didn’t really do anything. He paid everyone to write the sales letter, to build his website, to do the pay per click. And then he stands on stage and says he’s a guru.
Drives me nuts these people who havn’t done the hard slog, who have no idea how to do what they actually sell because they just pay other people to do it for them. And then they are seen as gurus.
Great post James.
‘Schrakmo’- & Dean…
‘Ole Frosty’ (AKA J Carlton )is proud of you I’m sure.. Me too!
I’ve been ripped off before and that’s why I am so investing in you, your teaching & programs.
I am ‘old school’ and believe that integrity IS the mark of your character.
Lets be proud of all we do & represent- There is no better way to live.
Don’t we all want to feel we’ve made a decent ‘contribution’ whilst we’re on this planet!?
If the commentary is any indication, you have touched the nerve of a massive swell of discontent!!
I have pretty much decided to unsubscribe from all other IMers, except for SFR, FWF or your other great products (and anything from the new Team IMFusion!)
Lets Crush It in 2010!!!!!
Cheers,
Maggie
I’ve been to a few Internet Marketing Seminars over the years and found that one speaker after another all had their individual ’sob’ stories ! How they were once living under a bridge, with no money, no food, family starving etc etc. And, then “praise the lord”; they found the right way, product or whatever.
Put me right off, as after a while, you know it’s just BS !
So James, was Yanik Silver’s course that dropped the ball??
I’ve never been a Seminar in real life, but I’ve seen enough recordings and replays to know that most are nothing but a giant sales pitch. Yes they contain information, but that’s ony to butter you up for their eventual “buy me” line.
I’m SO over the BS. The “dear friend” emails trying to sell me on everything from a left handed screwdriver to checkered paint. I barely read any of my emails anymore and ironically, spend my time writing on my blog dedicated to internet marketing spam and my new site that is created to ‘out’ all of these dodgy products and car salesmen marketers.
Amusingly, the Google search that generates the most hits for my blog is a very well known marketers name tied in with “bait and switch”…
Along the same lines as the ‘dear friend’ is the ‘personal’ – that one drives me nuts!
Looking at my inbox currently, I see:
- “Thanks…” for what I don’t know
- “(personal)” I highly doubt it
- “Here’s your Download you requested” which was an out an out lie
- and “URGENT – 24 Hour Notice” which I received from the SAME person on multiple days…
I don’t take any notice of email headers anymore, they’re all tricks!
Have to agree with you James but since you didn’t name names or provide specifics you actually provided no advice or help to anyone and just tried to make yourself look good by saying I am not like that, I don’t do that.
I call bullshit on this post.
If your going to say it then say it.
Next time you call Bullshit then call it – if your worried about burning bridges then don’t call bullshit.
I was looking forward to a good post on this and was disappointed.
“Warning: this post may rattle some cages and offend, do not read if you are easily offended.” – what a joke.
Dean – “Wow, I love how refreshingly honest and blunt James is, that is a very rare thing in this industry.” – Are you serious man, refreshingly honest and blunt.
You guys are certainly sounding like the Guru’s you are referring to – put out a bunch of horseshit crap that people will identify with and believe in on the sales letter but underneath there is no substance.
Again, I call bullshit on this post.
I don’t care if you don’t have the guts to post this, I expect you won’t even though it is an honest opinion, just hope you actually get what I am referring to and have the balls to step out next time.
As I said earlier, the next time you call bullshit then call it – if your worried about burning bridges then don’t call bullshit.
If I provide no advice then what are you agreeing with? Doesn’t make any sense….. By the way I’m just venting not advising.
I find it amusing (ironic?) that someone who “calls bullshit” on this post by using the fact that you don’t name name’s and don’t have the guts, can’t even post their own name or link to anything that might track them back…
Ah the hypocrisy.
From someone who hasn’t even the balls to put a real name… you couldn’t make it up!!